RecentComments:kjv@Job:4-5 kjv@Job:4-5 @ @ RandyP comments: Normally, this would sound like proper counsel, much of the counsel we give today sounds the same. In this book though we see that Job is caught directly in the middle of something between Satan and God. This does not mean that this is always the case, we don't know if this has happened more than just this once. We only know that this type of occurrence is possible and that one may be tested similarly as a result.
RecentComments:kjv@Job:6 kjv@Job:6 @ @ RandyP comments: Job responds with real and honest feelings even in questioning his friends intents. His thoughts and sensitivities lay barren, desperate, and oddly profound. He suffers from tremendous depression however. Those of us sent to comfort or counsel a friend should be well aware of our intents and devices before proceeding. As good as our advice sounds to us it may be ill-timed, insensitive, or else irrelevant to the actual situation as it is in this case.
RecentComments:kjv@Job:4-5 kjv@Job:4-5 @ @ RandyP comments: The obvious question for me is that if this is the consequence of a unrepentant/sinful Job, why then aren't we all treated by God the same way. No doubt, after ten kids being taken away, this would be equivalent to ten souls paying the cost of one man's sin/unrepentance with their own lives (not to mention all the servants). To add to this removing all of his possessions and boils over his entire body; what are we really accusing God of? Extreme excess? This particular case should be understood as a revelation of the intents and mindset of Satan as much as the testing of an upright man. If there is any sin (which there always is) we should all be fearful and repent, we should be cautious not to respond with greater sin, be mindful of who is accusing who of what, allow for the possibilities spiritually far beyond our limited understanding.
RecentComments:kjv@Job:7 kjv@Job:7 @ @ RandyP comments: Really, what can you say to a person going through this deep of a depression? He is being real although one sided in his assessment. Often when we listen, we busy ourselves searching for answers and miss the mark of just being there to listen. It may be best to prayerfully just let this pour itself out of the soul till it runs dry. What answers are there in these times?
RecentComments:kjv@Job:8:20 kjv@Job:8:20@ @ RandyP comments: What perfect man is there? Job was certainly a good man. God himself had said that there was none as upright. Upright because his repentance and prayers for his family. Because of this, he got caught in the middle of a spiritual battle. He has not been cast away. God is not asleep. His friend is considering only Job's immediate physical appearances.
RecentComments:kjv@Job:9:17 kjv@Job:9:17@ @ RandyP comments: It is not true that this circumstance multiplies without cause, it is that Job and his friends do not yet know the cause. Even if they knew the cause, like us reading this, they may not understand the cause still. The cause is for God to know and for us to trust His judgement.
RecentComments:kjv@Job:9:22 kjv@Job:9:22@ @ RandyP comments: What does Job mean by destroy? He has not been destroyed. If it has been appointed for all men to die, if naked we come into and leave this life, if the possessions of this world only rust and rot away, what has been destroyed but our false notions and expectations? Being temporarily emptied is not the same as being destroyed. God has spared Job's life and has His purposes for such. Why isn't that the focus?
RecentComments:kjv@Job:9 kjv@Job:9 @ @ RandyP comments: Deep depression brings a sense of profound thought that may not actually be there. The patient's mind is busily thinking even as others are answering him, consuming itself in what it thinks is profound. He thinks that he is on the brink of something big if he can just follow it through. It is not that he doesn't appreciate the counsel of others, he just can't silence his thoughts enough to listen because of the intrigue of this sudden perceived depth of thought. The perception is addictive. Rarely is the pursuit he makes anything more than the depression tangling and coiling itself further.
RecentComments:kjv@Job:10-11 kjv@Job:10-11 @ @ RandyP comments: In many passages such as this we see the infallibility of the Bible in an interesting scope. Here there is an obvious contradiction of thought presented in debate form; both sides cannot be true, perhaps neither, perhaps parts of both. The Bible is accurate in its record of what was said. The synthesis of the debated points in the context of the remainder of scripture is the truth. The writers attempt is to challenge and stretch our understanding which when properly done leads to growth. We see also the difficulty of cherry picking single verses for our personal use without understanding the verse's immediate and general context.
RecentComments:kjv@Job:12 kjv@Job:12 @ @ RandyP comments: Great and awesome and feared is our God; his way's and thoughts beyond knowing, and yet at times like this knowing what cannot be understood is precisely what we attempt to do. Each of these men can be correct in their diverse points and still not know the half of it. What they do know without knowing the rest can easily be misapplied to Job's situation and the relief that he seeks. Can this be the infallible truth that the Bible is presenting?
RecentComments:kjv@Job:15 kjv@Job:15 @ @ RandyP comments: As long ago as these conversations occurred, it remains very interesting that all of these things discussed we still ponder over today. It is amazing how deep and concerned they were about these central issues so long ago. When we think how far back and how different culturally these men were from us, our similarities are striking.
RecentComments:kjv@Job:16:4-5 kjv@Job:16:4-5@ @ RandyP comments: As we are often counselors to others in their times of need, we should heed Job's advice. We intend to do well by our counsel but how well if we are merely heaping up words against a person. The object of this type of counsel should be to strengthen and to comfort grief. Sometimes only people who have been through similar are able to fully understand this.
RecentComments:kjv@Job:16-17 kjv@Job:16-17 @ @ RandyP comments: Sometimes it feels not only that we are suffering for God but, also being piled upon by our friends and neighbors. Feelings of punishment can come from those who otherwise seek to help us. Grief over lost loved ones is not meant as a time of punishment but a time of cleansing and healing. There is nothing wrong in telling your friends so when such is the case or even separating yourself from them for a short time.
RecentComments:kjv@Job:18 kjv@Job:18 @ @ RandyP comments: Well that's comforting to know Mr. Bildad. He apparently didn't listen to what Job had just said. Perhaps he was too busy thinking of what he would say next to hear straight. Profound as it is it is not beneficial. We too should be advised.
RecentComments:kjv@Job:18 kjv@Job:18 @ @ RandyP comments: It might be better at this point for Job's friends to stop talking. How about taking a wet wash cloth and damping his wounds? How about walking him down to the stream and reminiscing? How about a campfire under the stars? How about reading from the Word and worshiping/praising/singing? How about anything other than the line of conversation these men insist on continuing?
RecentComments:kjv@Job:19:25-27 kjv@Job:19:25-27@ @ RandyP comments: This is a prophecy. It is also his salvation. Just as we look back to the cross for our salvation, the saints of that day were judged by their belief forward to the cross. It is also a detailed description of a physical resurrection of our flesh. Not sure how the Sadducee explained this one away.
RecentComments:kjv@Job:19-20 kjv@Job:19-20 @ @ RandyP comments: Job insists that God looks upon him as an enemy which is not true. Job's friends see God as extracting a restitution for some hidden unconfessed sin which isn't true either. Job's one saving belief is the belief that he will one day see his redeemer on earth.
RecentComments:kjv@Job:21-22 kjv@Job:21-22 @ @ RandyP comments: One argument insists that God only rewards those that do good and seek His way. They can ask what ever they want and God will be glad to do it for them. Most of what they would ask for is material things. Job's present argument is that the wicked do just fine on their own if riches and rich lives are the mark. God seems often to leave them alone till their final demise. It is the upright that seem to draw his correction. Today, where does the evidence tend to rest?
RecentComments:kjv@Job:23-24 kjv@Job:23-24 @ @ RandyP comments: From what I have seen the evidence of this process seems clear. Whom God loves he corrects and this reproof is a way of life. It is an investment in who we will one day be. The wicked however, there is no reason to invest, correction only makes them more intent on their wicked ways. They may appear to be left to their own but, God has their end prepared. He also has us standing in the gap for those helpless victims; it is part of our test.
RecentComments:kjv@Job:28:28 kjv@Job:28:28@ @ RandyP comments: Who can know his ways or cleans his own self? If the fear lacks (and it most certainly does) how can man know that he lives and breaths evil enough to depart it. The falseness of moral relativism is that evil is determined and judged without regarding any fear of the Lord therefore is there little regard for any evil other than that hurt which is brought against oneself by others.
RecentComments:kjv@Job:29 kjv@Job:29 @ @ RandyP comments: The tendency when reading this book is to put ourselves in the role of Job. Clearly from this passage very few of us have half the previous track record of righteousness and longevity as Job did. This is what makes the story so much more than what we make it: there was in fact none more righteous than Job and yet this happened. We would like to think that it is Satan attacking us similarly to Job; is it because we are more righteous than Job? What makes us think that Satan has the slightest interest in making another ultimate challenge with God regarding our faith when he pretty much has our faith locked up anyway? Odds are better that we are playing the role of one of Job's friends trying to talk him out of his righteousness. That is the story.
RecentComments:kjv@Job:29-30 kjv@Job:29-30 @ @ RandyP comments: The righteousness of Job had flushed out a great many pretenders, a number who were unworthy/untrusted even to be dogs in his flock (and that is not to knock the dogs). Now that God's hand was removed these enemies and low lifes saw opportunity to pound the image and reputation of Job into the dust. Apparently the many poor and needy that Job had helped were unable or unwilling to stand up for Job; as is often the case. It is almost like watching a plane crash; everyone just watches in awe.
RecentComments:kjv@Job:31 kjv@Job:31 @ @ RandyP comments: The difficult part of this is that it all sounds so true. I would wonder though theses things being the case, how many of us ever would attain these high marks. The men declaring these things, had they? Job in all of his righteousness, had he? Do we? If not then surely we all should be judged in the same fashion as Job. Problem with the line of thought is that Job isn't being judged, he is being tested. Yes and no we really do these thing and we really don't; we all fall short. The sum of each of our righteousness is but filthy rags. For me to say that you are being tested and that I am not shows that I am more righteous than you is a complete falsehood.
RecentComments:kjv@Job:32:1 kjv@Job:32:1@ @ RandyP comments: A good start is made by the youngest man. He has respectfully kept his silence, he has attempted to keep matters of personality and titles out of the way, he heard all of the matter until the others had said all that they could think of to be said, seeing no resolution he begins to confess his objective thoughts. Though it was described as coming out of his wrath, it seems quiet calmly presented. It will be interesting to see if he is wise enough as a youth to keep these issues separated out.
RecentComments:kjv@Job:33:13 kjv@Job:33:13@ @ RandyP comments: As compassionate and polite as the young mans plea to Job seems to be, it seems to be built of a similar argument; that Job has something major to repent of and that he is adding to it by not repenting, God doesn't just do this without reason, without one deserving it so the theory goes. There is also the notion that by contending with the counselors that haven't this problem that Job is somehow contending with God. We start to see how many forms the same argument can take on.
RecentComments:kjv@Job:33-34 kjv@Job:33-34 @ @ RandyP comments: I still wonder why the men are talking. They seem to be intent on answering an unanswerable question intellectually/satisfactorily. Why are they not praying? Why are they not reciting scripture? Why are they not singing? Why are they not seeking God's answer? Why are they not dressing wounds or seeking ointments or comfort or relief?
RecentComments:kjv@Job:36:11 kjv@Job:36:11@ @ RandyP comments: Perhaps one should not fixate merely on the prosperity. There is prosperity in other ways. Jesus said to sell it all and follow Him, to worry not about the morrow. Paul said that he learned to live prosperous in his poverty and lean in his times of prosperity. There is wealth in so much more such as in the relationships made just in doing God's word, there is a joy in His path, and fulfillment in His peace. And if bountiful material possession then more material possession to share. Prosperity is a state of being not a tally of possessions.
RecentComments:kjv@Job:35-36 kjv@Job:35-36 @ @ RandyP comments: What do we think God receives from our hand? What doesn't He already have? What do we have that He has not given us? If we sin, what have we taken away from Him? If we do good, what benefit does HE receive? We sin, we hurt ourselves and others. We do good, we benefit ourselves and others. To do good is by Him. To do wrong is to not do the good by Him. When people think that they have done good works, what is it that they've actually done that is deserving of eternal reward?
RecentComments:kjv@Job:37 kjv@Job:37 @ @ RandyP comments: Finally. Someone is speaking some sense not trying to find blame or find cause but, tries to find God. This could be worship, this could be song, this could be comfort and uplifting. Often, we get stuck in the narrow little chapters of our lives even as counselors focused on what we've done or what we need to be doing and neglect to see the enormously wide bigger picture. We see even in David's Psalms a frequent pity party (heart felt certainly but one sided no doubt) erupt in a liberating fountain of realizations of greater divine spiritual things.
RecentComments:kjv@Job:38-39 kjv@Job:38-39 @ @ RandyP comments: The Lord is using the natural sciences as His textbook in this monologue underlining the depth of order and command He has set over nature. He asks the questions over and over "where were you when.." and "are you the one who has set this/that in order..". Until now this band of men have focused narrowly misery and sorrow, on wickedness and righteousness and judgement and how God might reward/punish either. It seems clear that the Lord is immediately establishing a dividing line between who man is and who God is. Beyond the theory and mental exercise, God is much wider and much deeper and much more in control than we will ever understand; nature itself being ample proof.
kjv@kjv@Job:38-39 @ @ RandyP comments: I make mention that Satan has been out of the storyline now since the second chapter. Everything from there has been four men trying to explain by their own understandings what had happened and why. Job was victorious initially by holding firm to the faith but with this victory is now left with the depression of the fallout. Now the Lord has His word.
RecentComments:kjv@Job:40:8 kjv@Job:40:8@ @ RandyP comments: This is essentially the nature of sin in a nut shell, raising ourselves up by lowering God down to anything less than what He is. To the defiled nothing is pure, especially their image of God. It can take on many different forms including relativism, idolatry, agnosticism, lawlessness, murder, anger, lust, deceit, etc..
RecentComments:kjv@Job:42:1-6 kjv@Job:42:1-6@ @ RandyP comments: That God can do everything and no thought can be hidden from Him is truly transformative. We have gone this long journey with Job to find that God is much to be feared, there is so much that we just don't understand. The image we have of Him is an image built to our own advantage. The pedestal we put our intellect and self image on needs to be abhorred and repented of. Before, Job had only heard of these things, now, he has seen. Everything that he has been through has led him to this.
RecentComments:kjv@Job:42 kjv@Job:42 @ @ RandyP comments: The ending isn't always the same. Some never allow themselves to receive the knowledge of the Lord in this one on one fashion. Some counselors disregard the outcomes. Some extended families never return, and never surrender blame. When they do there is much to be thankful for. Some patients come to this realization not to be rewarded on this earth but, just in time to be brought into the next life. God's ways to us are just as mysterious and just as right.
RecentComments:kjv@Psalms:112 kjv@Psalms:112 @ @ RandyP comments: God can use one upright man can effect an entire generation of upright people. He frequently does. What makes this upright man? He greatly delights in the commandments. What kind of things does he do? We have glimpses here but, it is more to do with how he goes about the things that he does. This description is very similar to the description of Job's uprightness, as in distributing to the poor. It doesn't say that evil tidings will not come, it says the he will not be afraid of them, his heart is fixed trusting in the Lord.
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